Jun 17 2008

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Category: IdeasOren Hurvitz @ 10:19 pm

According to salary information collected by new startup Glassdoor Buy Prozac Without Prescription, , Apple pays its engineers significantly less than competing companies in Silicon Valley. Prozac without prescription, Apple engineers make $89,000 a year, buy generic Prozac, Prozac price, whereas Google engineers can buy four more Segways a year (pre-tax) with their $112,573 paycheck, where can i order Prozac without prescription. Canada, mexico, india, Microsoft and Yahoo are closer to Google: both companies pay their engineers $105,000 a year, Prozac street price. Effects of Prozac, See TechCrunch's review of Glassdoor for the data.

I wondered how much of a difference this salary disparity made to Apple's bottom line, fast shipping Prozac, Prozac from canada, so I took a look at its annual 10-K filings from 2003 to 2007. Each of these reports includes, buried among its 170 pages, Apple's net income and how much it spent on R&D, Buy Prozac Without Prescription. For simplicity I assumed that the R&D budget was entirely spent on salaries; this isn't far off the mark in a hi-tech company like Apple, Prozac photos. Kjøpe Prozac på nett, köpa Prozac online, If Apple were to pay its engineers the same salaries as Google then its R&D budget would increase by 26%. This amount (26% of the R&D budget) is how much Apple saves each year by paying below-market salaries, order Prozac from mexican pharmacy. Buying Prozac online over the counter, I calculated what Apple's net income would have been if it had paid its engineers the same as Google, and these are the results:

Apple\'s Increase in Net Income - Table

Explanation:


  • All dollar values are in millions.

  • # Employees - from Apple's 10-K.

  • R&D Budget - from Apple's 10-K.

  • Adjusted R&D Budget - had Apple paid its engineers at the same level as Google, online buying Prozac, Where to buy Prozac, this would have been its R&D Budget.

  • Net Income - from Apple's 10-K.

  • Adjusted Net Income - had Apple paid its engineers at the same level as Google, this would have been its Net Income.

  • Increase in Net Income - the magnitude by which Apple's net income was higher that year compared to what it would have been had it paid salaries at the same level as Google.

The Adjusted Net Income is a good estimate, Prozac schedule, Prozac treatment, but it's not completely accurate. Buy Prozac Without Prescription, For example, the increase in Apple's R&D Budget would have meant that its expenses are higher, so it would have paid less taxes. But the overall trend is clear, Prozac wiki. Is Prozac safe, Here's the Increase in Net Income in chart form:

Apple\'s Increase in Net Income

In 2003 and 2004, the effect of underpaying its engineers made a huge difference to Apple's bottom line, Prozac australia, uk, us, usa. Get Prozac, In 2003, these savings turned around Apple's year: from a loss to a small profit, purchase Prozac online no prescription. Prozac from canadian pharmacy, In 2004, they doubled the profit, what is Prozac. However, once Apple's earnings began to skyrocket in 2005, the effect of the R&D savings became much smaller: just 6% of the net income in 2007, for example, Buy Prozac Without Prescription. Prozac use, Paying low salaries to its engineers was a lifesaver for Apple during its difficult times. But now that Apple is immensely profitable there's no more excuse for this practice, buy Prozac without prescription. Generic Prozac, In the TechCrunch article mentioned previously, the site's owner Michael Arrington says: "Apple software engineers make only about $89, order Prozac online overnight delivery no prescription, Herbal Prozac, 000, on average, rx free Prozac, Prozac mg, but they get to create some of the most loved products on Earth." I'm sure this warms their hearts. But an extra $20, Prozac duration, Purchase Prozac for sale, 000 a year would make their hearts downright toasty, and their spouses' as well, where can i cheapest Prozac online. Online buy Prozac without a prescription.

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35 Responses to “Buy Prozac Without Prescription”

  1. Partners in Grime says:

    Maybe after iPhone 2.0 hits the bigs the engineers will cash in.

  2. I Priori says:

    I mostly drive a truck and work on paper rolls for a local newspaper in Riverside, California, USA, at approx. $9.75/hr, yes, just above minimum wage. While the company offered me health benefits — dental, general health, and optometrist — I can’t afford general health.

    I am able to afford dental, but only because we live close to the excellent Loma Linda University Medical School; Its dental school charges approx. 50% less than a typical commercial dentist; I can’t distinguish the quality of work between the former and latter, so I am currently satisfied with LL’s work. Without Loma Linda to repair my teeth, I would not be able to afford dental either.

    The close proximity to my employer allows me to walk to work. During the walk, I pass the refurbished Iron Works Bldg. located on one side of the street, and a citrus packing bldg. on the other. Walking between the two is a rewarding experience because it exposes me to non-cookie cutter architecture, allowing me to feel a measure of pleasant nostalgia. I cross a set of rail road tracks, pass by a water channel, a converted Santa Fe RR Station, and a bridge, decorated by patriotic Riverside emblems, that spans University Ave. Approaching 14th. St., still on Vine St., I glimpse the new MetroLink Station to my left. It is comprised of a bridge that spans the three sets of tracks. The tracks are shared by BSNF RR Co. and ML. Commuters sit or stand, waiting either for the bus or the ML. When a slow train cuts off my walking route and would otherwise have to wait for it to pass through, I might choose to cross the station’s bridge, but this would add about five minutes to my goal, so I weigh the two options: Do I wait for the train to pass or is it faster to use the ML bridge? All this adds to the interest of the walk.

    Working conditions at the newspaper are fine: Co-workers are pleasant, the supervisors treat me well, and I believe that both respect me. This means that my total benefits — some I certainly provided to myself — work into the equation to produce the sum total of benefits. I am conscious that I am taking advantage of them and appreciate them. I am currently satisfied with the quality and quantity that makes up the sum total. Perhaps for similar practical and intrinsic reasons, Apple employees are satisfied at Apple.

  3. ashok pai says:

    now, that’s really greedy to keep it all to themselves. they stuck with apple during the hard times with lower pay, but, not rewarding them is inexcusable. not everyone is enamored by the fancy toys, at least those toys can keep you humored only till some time! esp, after this survey, steve will have to respond or risk making apple employees like fools clinging onto some toys!

  4. krystal cane says:

    Why is this important. Most of the things they build are made in China , Hong Kong or some other Asian country

  5. AC says:

    $89,000 – in the San Jose area? Where do these guys live, in their cars? Seriously, I wouldn’t touch a bay area job for less than $300K – being fond of indoor plumbing, and the like. But hey, if they like living eight-to-a-studio-apartment and eating from dumpsters, or an insanely long commute using $5/gallon gas, who am I to judge.

  6. Bryce says:

    The number of engineers submitting salary information in the survey is so small that no reasonable conclusions can be drawn from the data. Certainly not the type of analysis being performed here.

  7. Oren Hurvitz says:

    @I Priori: that sounds idyllic. And I agree: overall quality of life matters more than your paycheck.

  8. Oren Hurvitz says:

    @Bryce: this data isn’t scientific, but it does show a trend. And other sources (including anecdotal information from the Slashdot thread about this post) agree that Apple pays lower salaries than Google.

  9. Reinharden says:

    Just for fun, let’s assume that each of the software engineers started work on January 1, 2003, and were issued 5000 stock options. After the 2-for-1 split on February 28, 2005, they now have 10000 options with an exercise price under $8/share. At the current $180/share, each potentially therefore has 1.7 million gross profits from their stock options.

    MSFT and YHOO aren’t even close. GOOG does better; however, their stock packages for new hires have historically been less generous than AAPL’s.

    Anyway, $300k in options gains per year goes a long way in wiping out a $20k salary differential… ;-)

    reinharden

  10. Andrew says:

    what a load of rubbish….have you heard of productivity?? eg other engineers been there longer /better then get paid more v apple eng demographic being newer / younger workers. There is no monopoly on jobs..if they deserved more they would walk if seriously underpaid as this gibberish implies.

    Fortune CEO.

  11. microripper says:

    dang u can get paid more coding .net! apple should be ashamed of themselves. hope they get paid up the butt via apple stock or something.

  12. Reginald says:

    R&D expenses on the 10-K also tend to include salaries for QA people and software testers, who often get paid less than the engineers and drag down the average.

  13. anon says:

    krystal cane you are an idiot. these guys design and build the hardware and software for the iphone. whether or not it gets manufactured overseas has no difference on the fact that the engineers are the brains behind the product. why are you even reading this article if you are gonna say some stupid sh*t like that?

  14. antisoft says:

    Microripper: you HAVE to get paid more to put up with .net! Same job with .net is worth a 50% bonus, in my opinion.

  15. Thomas Purves says:

    Let’s hope these apple engineers have employee stock option plans.

    Apples employees are doing a *lot* better than microsoft employees on their stock options if they’ve been there since 2001. Not quite as well as google’s but not to shabby either.

    MSFT stock has been dead flat for years. AAPL and GOOG well…

  16. dude says:

    Hey,

    Apple is the best place to be, Steve Jobs is the strategic good guy and the company makes beautiful and very profitable products. We are all addicted to money and apple hardware, so who are we to judge apple. Look it at the bright side, we can still afford Apple stuff. And when we don’t buy, prices drop from 600 to 400 to 200. That is the kindness of a good profit margin. As long as we have Apple stuff to buy we’ll make it the next day.

  17. The Wacky World of Chris Knight » Sucky Salaries at Apple says:

    [...] median’ for salaries; but some of us neverhave been, and never will be, average. Cookies are for Closers: Oren Hurvitz’s Blog » Apple’s Engineers: an Unexpected Profit Center Apple’s Engineers: an Unexpected Profit Center Tag: Ideas — Oren Hurvitz @ 10:19 [...]

  18. Stevo says:

    C’mon, working for apple should be pay enough.

  19. Stevo says:

    Suck it up babies!

  20. Sandeep says:

    What a load of horseshit. This is a classic example of Garbage in Garbage out.

    Half of Apple’s employees work in Retail. Most of the employee growth in the last few years has come in terms of retail. This expenditure is usually accounted in the SG&A category (Sales, General, Administrative) rather than R&D.

    This is why idiots should not analyze balance sheets.

  21. Oren Hurvitz says:

    @Sandeep: the salary information was for engineers only, and therefore the analysis was based only on Apple’s R&D budget. The number of retail employees is irrelevant.

  22. Apple losing engineers due to low salaries? Not so fast | Apple,iPhone,Mac,iPod says:

    [...] the other hand, Hurvitz notes on his blog that when squared with the company’s net income, Apple’s engineers are getting the [...]

  23. MacBlogz - Your one stop mac news stop » Blog Archive » Apple engineers paid significantly less than their Silicon Valley peers. says:

    [...] at Google, where engineers stand to make as much as $112,573 per year. Based on Apple’s 10-K filings, the reports may reflect salaries from a few years past, before the release of Apple’s iPod [...]

  24. Orlando Smith says:

    The real question is what stock compensation do Apple’s engineers get. Steve Jobs, for example, has received only $1.00 in wages per year for quiet a few years, yet his compensation in stock has been worth at hundreds of millions of dollars. Given the long-terms performance of Apple’s stock, any engineer at Apple who received a substantial part of his compensation in stock would be doing quiet well and tremendously better than an engineer at Microsoft and many other tech companies, who received a similar proportion of his compensation in stock.

    If your are decent at reading the SEC disclosures required of public companies, you can examine Apple’s 10K and 10Q filings to determine the amount of stock that Apple is reserving for compensation, but I don’t that you can tell how Apple distributes that stock compensation among its employees.

  25. Nothan says:

    Or maybe they’re getting payed in stock which is or isn’t calculated in that survey

  26. digitalFlack says:

    - Are all of Apple’s engineers in the US?

    - I know a few of the developers, they haven’t complained to me about pay

    - I was a system engineer for Apple in the 90s, I made nearly that much then.

    Flack

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  28. Ev says:

    Maybe it’s because there are quite a few of electrical engineering jobs at Apple, perhaps even mechanical engineering. Those guys always make about 20% less than programmers.

  29. alfonsofuggetta.org » Blog Archive » Salari says:

    [...] the other hand, Hurvitz notes on his blog that when squared with the company’s net income, Apple’s engineers are getting the [...]

  30. Anonymous Coward says:

    I work at Apple as a developer, and they pay me closer to $200k per year. Those numbers are really only for the crap engineers that can’t program and are outsourced from other countries as well. Don’t believe the hype.

  31. People Want More! « Glassdoor.com blog says:

    [...] folks are starting to get a sense of just how powerful this information is. In a recent blog post Oren Hurvitz examined if it would affect Apple’s bottom line if they increased the salary of its engineers, [...]

  32. Supreme says:

    I can’t believe Apple is paying these guys low salaries for such an expensive area to live. What makes matters worse is that Apple does not seem to be sharing their wealth with their guys. If they gave them stock options up front…that’s one thing but I haven’t heard that they did. I’m a contractor (35 years old)here in New York, that does software testing for a government client and I earn $117k/year plus have good bennies and a great work environment. To be honest, I’m overpaid but I make sure that I work smart at testing their products and I believe I add value and worth to the team.

  33. leavethemalone says:

    Why are you guys bitching at their salaries being low? The apple engineers aren’t, and they are not walking
    out or going on strike…

  34. Tom Morris says:

    In addition to Bryce’s comment about the small sample size skewing the stats, there’s also the fact that the bottom line impact on the corporation is the “fully loaded” cost of an engineer, not their salary. This is going to significantly dilute the material effect of any differences in salary. A 26% difference in salaries, even if it were real, is probably more like a 10% difference in R&D spend when you factor in benefits, allocated capital & overhead costs, NRE payments to fabs & design houses (since they do h/w engineering as well as s/w), etc, etc.

  35. ANITA says:

    AFTER THE LAUNCH OF APPLE iPHONE… STEVE JOBS’ NET INCOME WILL REACH ITS HEIGHTS IN THE WORLD AND APPLE MIGHT BECOME WORLDS NO: 1 COMPONY IN TECHNOLOGY…..[:)]